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Scientology: Internet news groups, blogs and forums (Scientology in the media and on the Internet (2))

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1) General overview/introduction:   Mission statement, overview, present-day Scientology Introduction to Scientology and LRH Scientology in media and Internet (+ forums, Wikipedia) Scientology: Its true history exposed? Scientology Q&A (FAQ) External links Materials want list Recommended list of materials 2) Responses (with annotations): Appreciative responses to my pages Critique received (1) from churchgoing Scientologists Critique received (2) from out-of-church Scientologists Critique received (3) from anti-Scientologists 3) Topics of particular interest: (a): General topics Story of Mary Sue Hubbard Holy Scriptures vs Scientology LRH vs Dictionaries LRH vs theory of evolution LRH's works of fiction (b): Organizational topics A printing history of the materials of Scientology Scientology Membership: HASI vs IAS LRH vs pricing policies The copyrights issue and licensing (c): Technical topics History of Grade Chart: a) General History of Grade Chart: b) Detailed ‘Clear’ defined NED for OTs The ‘Primary Rundown’ 4) Controversial topics: Mistaken ideas of ‘Ethics’ clarified The Fair Game Law Practice of Disconnection Security Checking Freeloaders vs Ex-staff members The ‘Rehabilitation Project Force’ (RPF) 5) Changes in the flow of ‘information’: (a): Alterations (LRH or non-LRH?) LRH vs Alterations Non-LRH turns into LRH? & Proposal to solution The ‘Cramming Series’ - LRH or not LRH? Based on LRH publications (b): General overview LRH vs A New Order (introduction) → Administrative and organizational matters Setup of the printed materials (1973-86) The RTRC, the unit that wrote LRH issues (1973-82) The dawning of RTC and new management (1982-83) → Technical matters Introduction to the event of losing a Bridge) Analysis of HCOB “Tech Correction Round-up” Lost Bridge: Tech changes during 1978-82 The history of the original OT VIII ‘Golden Age of Tech’ (GAT) analysis Drilling in Scientology (c): The matter of David Mayo Story of David Mayo ‘SO ED 2344 Int’ analysis Training drills (TRs) Mayo reference list 6) Conspiracies - In L. Ron Hubbard's footsteps Scientology vs a New World Order →Where is L. Ron Hubbard? (chronology of Scn history) Whereabouts of L. Ron Hubbard chronology The era of adoration; Presentation of L. Ron Hubbard L. Ron Hubbard into artistry: Music & Film 7) Scientology under attack (a): A premeditated series of occurrences? (’80s conspiracy) Introduction & Ron DeWolf Gerry Armstrong (‘affirmations’) Russell Miller ( ‘Bare-Faced Messiah’) A religion created for the money? (b): Battles fought and the internet (2016- ) Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (TV show) planned

>> Do you want to help with preserving the original technology? <<  Consult my want list here!

Please note that words with an asterisk (*) are defined at the bottom of this page! Only first appearances are indicated.

	“Scientology is as sane as each of us are.”
	Roadrunner
	(‘Roadrunner’ was my username on the various forums)

Scientology in the media and on the Internet   (page 2, groups and forums)

Go to “Scientology in the media and on the Internet” index page

 
Index:

		An overview
		My experiences with the various groups
			- a) Introduction - b) Forum #1 (Free Zone oriented)
			Forum #2 (Ron's org oriented)
			Forum #3 (anti-Scientology oriented, only for ex-Sea Org staff)
			Forum #4 (anti-Scientology oriented)
					(Includes: My tale; How another member of this forum was subjected to a similarly unfair treatment)
			Forum #5 (anti-Scientology oriented, originates from Norway)
					(Includes:  (Introduction; FAQ and trolls;  Introduction of my person on this forum and approach; The Jason Beghe incident and getting kicked; The approach of the forum owner; Last comments)
			Forum #6 (Independent Scientology oriented)
			- c) Afterword - Additional comments (1) - The matter of communication & The use of the ‘ignore button’ - Additional comments (2) - Freedom of speech vs? Freedom of speech - Additional comments (3) - Forums or counter ‘movements’ turning into cults themselves?
		A few additional relative notices about Internet groups
			- Seeing OSA everywhere and anywhere ... - The anti- or ex-Scientology groups - The no-Scientologist

An overview

Out there on the Internet there exist a variety of forums, yahoo groups and newsgroups that have a focus on the subject matter of Scientology. Those people that are active or a member in such groups can roughly be divided in 3 categories.

First category:  On one side we have those persons that wish to practice Dianetics and Scientology outside of the control of the Church of Scientology. They use these forums as a means to discuss various issues with each other concerning the Scientology technology or share experiences, ideas, inform about upcoming meetings and such. Some of these groups also provide materials for download. Occasionally the matter of so-called squirrel techniques (alteration of Dianetics and Scientology procedures) are touched and discussed on these forums. These may however get presented as extensions to Scientology technology. It is however not advised to get caught in these things!

Second category:  Here we have those persons that may have been active in Scientology but either received a bad treatment or finally figured for themselves that they have been had. For them these groups function as a medium to share their complaints.

Third category:  Lastly we have those persons that although they have not ever set one foot in a Scientology church, familiarized themselves with or practiced its procedures. Nonetheless now are they out there and claim to know a lot about it. Strangely enough some of them have since even may have been promoted as supposed experts on this subject matter of Scientology. When I talked to them I usually found that they have not even a basic understanding of the topic overall. Don't expect to be able to start any sort of serious discussion with these individuals, because they are not knowledgeable at all about the subject. It is funny to see that there are in fact these persons that, so they may state, went on a crusade to save people from this evil of Scientology, without actually knowing what it is about, unable to make any sort of distinction, and without actually having performed a proper analysis. Often a quick search on the Internet suffices to get them going. Many of them also seem to appear just to pass time. For some reason it appears attractive to some people to have a game going with ridiculing other people.

For a while I have been going around on these groups. It was curious to see for myself how these various people would go about things. It was experienced that if you wanted to stay that you basically sort of had to adjust to or accept the general take of things that were shared by the majority of the members of a group. The group moderators may also aptly appear at your front door step if you fall out of line too much. You may be asked (in a private message) why you are here on this forum and such questioning. If you do not submit to any demands they made your time on the forum may be cut very short, it may result in that you will be kicked and/or your IP banned. People in general just find it rather hard to deal with views that challenge their own. Most particularly when they themselves are insecure or not that knowledgeable. Most of the members of these groups just want to be there on that group and be acknowledged and are generally quite unwilling to take an alternate view on matters. You either toe that line or they are quick as a whip to ridicule you. Very seldom they are there to learn something. And indeed, the level of intelligence generally may not found to be that exclusive either.

Be aware that you on such forums may encounter a rather twisted interpretation of the subject matter of Scientology. In general these forums are not places where you will found out what the topic is about. The misconceptions and/or the prejudices that can be met there can really be astounding. Particularly on the anti-Scientology type of forums not a great distinction is made in regards to once having been involved with Scientology or not having been involved at any time. Just agree and you'll be accepted and considered smart.

 My experiences with the various groups

	a) Introduction
	b) Forum #1  (Free Zone oriented)
	Forum #2  (Ron's org oriented)
	Forum #3  (anti-Scientology oriented, only for ex-Sea Org staff)
	Forum #4  (anti-Scientology oriented)
		(My tale;  How another member of this forum was subjected to a similarly unfair treatment)
	Forum #5  (anti-Scientology oriented, originates from Norway)
		(Introduction;  FAQ and trolls;  Introduction of my person on this forum and approach;  The Jason Beghe incident and getting kicked;  The approach of the forum owner;  Last comments)
	Forum #6  (Independent Scientology oriented)
	c) Afterword
	Additional comments (1) - The matter of communication  &  The use of the ‘ignore button’
	Additional comments (2) - Freedom of speech  vs?  Freedom of speech
	Additional comments (3) - Forums or counter ‘movements’ turning into cults themselves?

 
a) Introduction

Roadrunner (my username)

To summarize it briefly, I have been kicked from 6 such Scientology related groups/forums (3 of them claim to be pro-Scientology, and the other 3 are sort of anti- or ex-Scientology). In addition to these there are also various so-called open message boards and newsgroups where I went around for a while. One can not be kicked from these, but some individuals may have wanted to achieve that either way (one can complain to the Internet provider via one's IP, which was actually attempted).

Now, why was I kicked from these privately managed forums? Well, I chose to not conform to the general agreements that were prevalent there. I just gave my honest opinion and was straightforward. I also used my rather extensive knowledge of Scientology history and my personal observations that I had made through the years. Initially I was flabbergasted by the unwillingness of the members of either of these groups to consider alternate options. It also appeared that freedom of speech was not considered an option, although they themselves claimed to adhere to that! It did not matter very much if they had stated being pro or anti Scientology either, the groups were managed in a similar manner. You either adjust to the ‘mentality’ of that particular group or you be gotten rid off in the end. I found that no exceptions with this, you will conform you will be invalidated or get silenced.

I have avoided to name any groups or persons as the focus here is on the situations that were faced rather then a whodunit. This is not an attack website, at that various of these groups were closed groups meaning you have to be a member before you join discussions. The purpose is to just give you some inkling in what you may expect if you get yourself involved in such forums and groups. It is a behavioural study you may say, simply recording the occurrences, and they are faithful.

	Forum #1  (Free Zone oriented) Subscribed:  13 December 2006 Kicked:  8 January 2007

“How will I fix this?” One of the claimed pro-Scientology groups at one point started to badmouth a person on the group that was not a member in that group. It got incited when various comments were made by some female person. Then 4 additional persons joined and supported the slander. This even included the forum owner that turned very strong-voiced about the person being smeared. He wrote amongst other that “she was nuts”. As it happened to be, the person being demolished by use of just words, I considered to be a friend of mine. I opposed on the group and privately to the forum owner without much response. Shortly after I then got accused by this forum owner to have copied contents from his private group and to have published it elsewhere, when all that I was guilty of was contacting my friend and informing that she was seriously being bad-mouthed on this so and so yahoo group (providing the Internet address of the group).

It should be said here as well that the lady that had instigated the initial smearing demanded from me on the forum to promise that I would not violate the group rules again. A rule that in fact never got violated. This lady rather actively acted to have me kicked from the group if I did not promise this. It is interesting that these demands came from the very person that found it all right to start a smearing campaign on a person that was absent. It was me that pointed out to her that this was totally not all right to do. I wrote on the forum that she should refrain from doing so. Instead of acknowledging she had started this vendetta. The forum owner I would perceive was put under quite some pressure by this lady. She kept on battering about this on the forum.

Either way in the end I got kicked for reason that I had threatened the forum owner (so he himself claimed). The reality was that he actually set an ultimatum to me that I opposed and I instead quoted freedom of speech. He basically ordered me to conform, and I refused under these conditions as I had done nothing wrong. I was of the opinion that I was the wrong target, he should correct the lady that started the smearing of my friend, which I told this forum owner. Instead he was submitting to this lady's demands and continued to primarily act against me. He demanded: “I need your promise that you'll no longer communicate matters on this forum elsewhere.”. I perceived this as if I was not allowed to have informed my friend about her being smeared. It seemed to promote that private smearing on the group is actually all right! In fact the group rules only address that one is not allowed to post texts from the group messages publicly, which I never did. As it appeared I was found guilty solely by suspicion. Ironically this forum owner wrote to me when I had applied for membership for his forum: “Your website has been much admired.”. Indeed this of course is all very nice indeed...

	Forum #2  (Ron's org oriented) Subscribed:  21 February 2005 Kicked:  21 April 2007

Another pro-Scientology group I was kicked out of is still sort of shrouded in mystery. This group hosts 2 message boards, a general board for information and the other for discussions. I have never been given a reason why I was kicked. I also received no unsubscribe message(s). I knew I had been kicked as I was unable to log on to the group, then I discovered that my username had disappeared from the list of members for both these forums. Repeated messages send to the forum owner requesting clarification remained unanswered. Obviously some people must have misunderstood something about the subject of Scientology. Scientology's main means is just this of being in communication. At least you would expect to receive a reason why some action was taken against you. I have had 2 incidences with this particular group. Firstly I acted rather strongly about the commendation and merchandising of a particular non-LRH technology that was promoted as an extension to Scientology. The latter incident was concerning some claims that were made about the Office of Special Affairs (OSA), the legal section of the Church of Scientology. I wrote that I would ask the local DSA about that (Director of Special Affairs). It was not so long after this that I got (silently) kicked. The forum owner may have thought I was an OSA infiltrator or sorts. Some messages that were posted by the forum owner a few months later on his forum indicated that those that have connections with the Church of Scientology or OSA are requested to go elsewhere. Well, which Martians did we not uncover as yet I may wonder...?

	Forum #3  (anti-Scientology oriented, only for ex-Sea Org staff) Subscribed:  10 September 2006 Kicked:  2 November 2006

A cause for problems seem to be the moderators themselves. What they do is they moderate! This means that they can reject your message so that it does not get posted on the groups forum. And there I was on this rather anti-Scientology oriented group. This forum owner is originally from England. Here I relate about about 2 occurrences. Incident 1:  I had written this short essay entitled: “Where is LRH?”. It was asking questions and raising the issue if L. Ron Hubbard had not left the scene already at a much earlier date than generally is assumed or believed. It was supported with various factual observations. It never got posted. I also did not receive a reject message from the forum owner for which reason I inquired several times what had happened with it. The forum owner had already earlier reasoned to me as follows: “You may not be sure whether one should attempt to keep conflicts out of the list or not - I am totally sure that it is necessary, though not always possible. The fact that it is not a 100% proposition does not mean that it should not be done.”. In regards to my not posted essay he finally responded as follows by explaining to me why he had created his group: “It is a way for people who, by the very nature of the organization we left, have been kept apart to get back in touch with each other.”. Thus he considered his group to be a means to reconnect with people one had lost sight of. And he failed to see what my essay (referred to by him as yet not approved) got to do with that. This reasoning is however odd as all sorts of topics did pass the revue and were discussed on this very forum, that also were missing any relation with catching up with old friends. The general tone found on this group was going towards finding fault with L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology in various ways. And these things could be discussed without restrictions as I got confirmed when scanning past discussions on his group. It would then appear that postings or responses that in some way may oppose to or question the validity of various particular statements made in the group are simply rejected by the forum owner as it does not toe a line, as I personally experienced.

Incident 2:  The other noted incident occurred when I was opposing to some claims made about some persons that had, or so was claimed, exposed the fraud of Scientology. I made some serious critical although factually supported comments in regards to the credibility of these persons. My message did not get posted. When I inquired with the forum owner he basically implied that I had no support for my utterances. Which in fact I had and which I also had forwarded. Then this forum owner further wrote to me that he personally knew one of these persons and confided in so many words that he would not accept my take of things. We got into an argue. I was seriously questioning his objectiveness regarding moderating the messages of what gets posted and what not. The final outcome of all this was that none of my messages regarding got posted and that I got kicked from the group.

	Forum #4  (anti-Scientology oriented) Subscribed:  24 June 2007 IP banned and username prohibited from posting:  19 September 2007 Officially kicked:  20 September 2007 A variety of my postings appear eradicated from its database:  at least since mid-2012

 
My tale

Another adventure of mine was on a forum that was also rather anti-Scientology oriented. I gave my opinion on matters. Things escalated when various persons there highly commended another member there and that they appreciated him so much. As it appears this commended member was the very same person that had earlier kicked me from his own yahoo group of which he was forum owner (see previous discussed group). So here I was giving my opinion and related my experiences with this individual. It appeared that it was not very appreciated by some other members of this group which they expressed on the forum. It already then culminated in that some member expressed on the forum to have me banned from the group. You see how quickly that goes! The obstacle here was that I had not actually violated any rules of the group. Either way at about that time messages started to appear on the forum from the forum owner herself such as “I have plans in the wind ...” , “It's not being ignored by me.” and then suggesting that “there is more than one way to skin a cat”. Before one more day had passed I was unable to log in to the forum. The website seemed (for me) as if gone (I got “page not found”). Although I was able to log in with ease when I changed my IP. Obviously the forum owner had banned the IP I had registered with. I send some emails to her and a few other person that were member in the group. One of these persons then posted on the forum what I had written and wanted to verify that what I had claimed. Then some turbulence started on the forum. The majority took sides with the forum owner and simply believed her. I was not banned she wrote on the forum, as my username was not indicated with that it was banned. I could post on the forum so she claimed. Be it noted here that in spite of that although I could log in with another IP I could not post with my username! It appeared that I effectively was prohibited from posting and defending myself on the forum!

An interesting side note is though that one of the members (with whom I had an email exchange about this), he now received a message from this very forum owner asking to receive the emails that I had send to her, as she claimed she had not received any of them. Her email address however was openly posted on the forum, and I did not receive any of my messages to her back because of them being undeliverable. Also my email address and website address were known to her. To date she has never communicated with me directly. Also previous private messages that I had send to her via the group mail system (prior to her banning my IP) remained unresponded to. Then a few weeks later after my official ban from the group I noticed that she started to post her old Scientology certificates on her forum (a Class IV auditor). One may wonder how much she had understood about the tool of simple communication.

 
How another member of this forum was subjected to a similarly unfair treatment

Then suddenly, 15 days later (mid-July 2008), we see that apparently the ban on this person had been lifted! This person himself told me that he never was informed about his ban being lifted by the forum owner or other. He writes to me: “Then I attempted to view a thread one day and suddenly, I could log in.”. The unofficially reinstated member, to that effect, started a thread on the forum discussing and clarifying the matter and summarize the happenings. There was just one very short message from the forum owner that appears in this thread (#23), that some member had “PMed” her “ASKING to have his account banned”. And this is all she got to say about the matter (as far as I could see), this after the reinstatement of the member. No reinstatement notice, apology, explanation, or announcement of some sort, I could find, nothing. Which would have been proper as evidently her evaluation of this member was highly incorrect. Well, at least in this case she has failed to get rid of a to her uncomfortable member, and make the accusations stick or at least get them accepted by the majority without too much protesting. The attempt simply failed. Unfortunately I apparently wasn't long enough on the forum to earn more appreciation from already reputed members of the forum. Either way, the recorded happenings as they folded out sum up rather nicely how this particular forum owner goes about things, or at least attempts to.

This unofficially reinstated member wrote to me: “Your write up was quite succinct and to the point. My personal opinion is that the forum owner has an axe to grind with anyone who doesn't toe the line re: Scientology and even sent me a couple of rather nasty private messages because I am, as she claims, a Scientologist.”. Be it noted here that this person in reality is not a Scientologist. He however promotes a genuine interest to have a fair approach. Rather obviously the forum owner does not!

	Forum #5  (anti-Scientology oriented, originates from Norway) Applied:  8 December 2007 Account enabled:  18 February 2008 Kicked:  21 April 2008

Introduction This is one of the larger Scientology oriented forums, or at least one of the more renowned ones. Somehow my attention was never really drawn to this forum. This forum originates from Norway, when I mention this various persons will know which this is. There appears to be a waiting list before you get your account enabled. Approximately 2-3 months appears common although it can go much quicker at times as I have seen. When I compiled this page and decided to write these brief synopsis' about my experiences on these various groups, then I realized that I actually had missed out on this the most significant one. So I decided to apply. Reason was two-fold. Would I be accepted? (I did not hide my identity in anyway, rather the contrary). It was a sort of putting the freedom of speech to the test that is particularly promoted by the forum owner. In fact I received a message from this forum owner (dated 18 Jan 2008) that read: “I reply to all applicants in the order they came in and I never refuse anybody because of their opinions.”. Second reason for applying was to find out if I could influence something here on this forum that was loaded with anti-Scientologists. As I already indicated this forum is anti-Scientology oriented. I frequently do notice that various persons that are posting on these forums are not in particular well-informed about the subject of Scientology and may just have accepted some statements from some person from some place. I still had some (blind) notion that I would be able to add something worthwhile to the discussion. Although I attempted to keep a rather low profile. The intent was to refrain from getting into any serious conflicts or creating any, thus per this it would be rather unlikely that I was going to be kicked, or so I figured. Nonetheless I would not refrain from giving my view on matters as gently as I could.

 
FAQ and trolls

On its FAQ page we are informed that “This message board was created to offer a friendly and safe place to meet others and discuss subjects related to the Church of Scientology.”. This forum was advocated to be “neutral ground”. Further it is explained that it was meant to be a means to help people that someway had been wronged and actually wanted to leave the Church of Scientology; “trying to get out of the cult,” as they phrased it. The forum had different sections in where you could tell about your personal experiences, debates, media reports, and so on.

“An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.”  (see further here, external link)

I would say here though that it should be obvious that one should also be on guard for, that prior to labelling a particular person with this, that one should have verifiable means to effectively determine that you are really dealing with such a person that is here with the intent to disrupt. You see, labelling a person being a troll is easy, backing it up may not be equally easy. Those persons that do not toe the general line present at a forum can quickly get the same label. You have to watch for that you don't label a person whose only guilt may be that he did not adjust him/herself to the general agreement that is present on some forum. Incorrectly labelling, thus on false grounds, a person can just be an effort to get rid of an uncomfortable poster for the sole reason that he/she is of a different opinion. Happens all the time as I have seen.

	“The term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent, by argument fallacy ad hominem.
	Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities.”

 
Introduction of my person on this forum and approach

I made some introduction of my person and my approach towards the subject matter of Scientology on this forum in a first post (see here, pop-up window). I did propose some issues and my view on things, adequately supported it with reference to relevant documents, and so on. Pretty much from the beginning various responses that I received were of a rather exceedingly unappreciative nature. I however simply stated my case with communication in a gentle manner and in spite of that at some point things turned sort of hectic. By now I was receiving repeatedly personal attacks and crude invalidations of a various nature. Some members finally then started to express that they actually wanted me out of there. The site administrator of this forum however interfered and urged “If someone is breaking the rules ... I expect you to notify me with links so I can look into it.”. He further urged to be sensible about matters. I found that the various members that frequently posted on this forum are as I encountered them on all the other forums. The only reason apparently why I remained an active registrant on this forum is because its forum owner did seem to appear to live up to the freedom of speech that he so actively promotes and advocates. Well, at least for a while.

A member of this forum then started a thread (a discussion) in the section “Feedback & Help”. It was aimed to be the place where all complaints about me could be forwarded. On that thread I urged that people would ensure that they would follow the forum rule “The complaint must contain proper reference and/or link to the text it refers to.”. I also urged that if some discussion got “derailed by this or that poster”, to then be “specific” and also “explain why” some person would “consider it being derailed”. This thread counts 42 messages, but not even one single exact incident had been reported! Nonetheless it was simply claimed that I had disrupted many a thread. Be it noted that I time after time after time had urged on this forum to be specific about any of the accusations at my address. They could not ever be delivered. It remained being a general finding-fault-with as in plain opinion.

 
The Jason Beghe incident and getting kicked

“If life is a game, Scientology gives you the tools to play it with a stacked deck and win consistently. Scientology has enabled me to make my dreams come true, really. I know that it can do the same for anyone. It is a rocket ride to spiritual freedom. Jason Beghe  Actor”

A forum moderator then participated and wrote about this “narcissistic poodle” (referring to me) that “hump his leg in our living room”. Then 3 additional members joined supporting the find-wrong-with messages. Finally we see a message from the forum owner: “The problem is not the provocateurs, we know about and expect them, the biggest problem is the ones who feed them. Those who let them push their buttons. They are IMHO a bigger ruin to the message board.”. It was followed with a link that lead to a first post in a newly created thread (a discussion) in where the information was relayed that my “Posting privileges” had “for now been paused.”. It seems though that I was judged by the forum owner being a provoker when the actual situation was that I was the one that persistently was being provoked and harassed! The forum owner simply could have approached my initial bully, instead he made me being the target for disciplinary actions. Thus it does seem that he found it easier to block me.

 
The approach of the forum owner

	“The anti-social personality habitually selects the wrong target.
	If a tyre is flat from driving over nails, he or she curses a companion or a non-causative source of the trouble. If the radio next door is too loud, he or she kicks the cat.
	If A is the obvious cause, the anti-social personality inevitably blames B, or C or D.”          LRH

It may be considered that I was disciplined and not my harasser for provoking. It is obvious though that this forum owner thus “kicks the cat,” and is abiding to his own personal motives and goals.

 
Last comments

	Forum #6  (Independent Scientology oriented) Subscribed:  26 January 2014 Kicked:  28 January 2014

A brief adventure of a rather late date. And brief it was indeed, it took only 2 days to have myself banned from this forum, my record thus far. This time around the person owing the group is a so-called Independent Scientologist, an auditor so he says. He runs this private forum. At this interim in time I didn't look for any more forums to join, but here I was invited by another person. And I was thinking to look around a bit and may be just run a few postings and then let it be.

 
c) Afterword

Well, this is how things may go on such groups of you do not conform to the general opinion. Things may turn very rude indeed. I have received tirades of all kinds of invalidations and opinions from various of its members when I only had proposed a different view on things. I also received repeated accusations of a various nature but that were never supported with exact verifiable incidences. I would not advice anyone to go around on these forums and participate, i.e. if you are not made of solid material yourself. If you are not it may turn into a rather negative and devastating experience. All will be fine as long as you agree and conform, if you however propose something different which is considered controversial on the particular group you will have turned yourself into a target yourself. Generally I find that the most regular posters are also not members of any acceptable level of intelligence. The misduplications that I have encountered are rather astounding. There is a significant problem regarding the ability to view exact pieces of data without any bias. Interpretations are being made, and this they will they you is what you said. Thus a rather significant level of actual misduplication. Thus you will not be able to have a sensible conversation with various of its members because of this.

Be it noted though that you can in fact find good people on these groups as well. Because of my running around on these groups I did get some good contacts and sources of information. Some of these actually also quit the group after seeing that the standard was not as hoped for. Further I found interesting historical information in the databases (old discussions) of these groups. You may also find a variety of Scientology old-timers on these groups chatting about these early days. Mind though that one has to scrutinize these personal interpretations of happenings when you come across them. Just remember where you are.

 
Additional comments (1) - The matter of communication  &  The use of the ‘ignore button’

These forums are a means of communication or at least they aim to be that. Although in practice it often appears to be used as a means to primarily converse with those persons that share the same or at least a very similar opinion. Therefore those persons that are of a different opinion, and they may very well have good arguments that do not get disproved that easily, they generally tend to be perceived as uncomfortable by those persons that oppose them. This now may create a particular situation. The tone used in addressing the person may start to get unpleasant, ridicule may enter, it can become very personal indeed (ad hominem), sometimes it may turn plain nasty. These quarrels may now witness that the topic or argument forwarded is not really addressed anymore by the opponent. It thus starts becoming an unfruitful discussion. Regularly we may see that this opponent will try to overthrow the other person with just plain opinion and at the same time one is trying to convince other participators of the discussion of the rightness of the own opinion. Of course this is far from sufficient to disprove the argument, but what else can they do if you can not show the incorrectness of that argument. I have experienced so very often that various people on these forums will not admit that may have been in error about something. A variety of members, I have found, will continue to persist being right about matters. One should watch for this typical behaviour on the various forums, and it should be seen as an indicator. An indicator that may point in the direction of that these people that are going around on these forums may not be so knowledgeable at all about the matters they try to find-wrong-with.

	“I would partially ‘quarantine’ [him] to one thread somewhere on the message board. Call it the ‘Converse With [...] Thread.’ There, he could spout his nonsense till Kingdom Come.
	I would then set up his account so that outside of that special thread, [he] gets only one post per day. One post per day in the greater remainder of the message board. Further, I would put a maximum word limit on that one post of the day at about 500 words or whatever a medium sized post might be.
	This would allow [him] the right to speak, but would also serve to eliminate him as a major distraction, as a royal pain in the ass and as a major keystroke waster on this message board.”

It appears that one is ready to go at great length to control some person. The simplicity however here is that message boards have rules, but what to do if some uncomfortable poster does not violate the rules? Then you do the above I guess for damage control. But why could the forum rules not take care of that all by itself? This would be the question to ask. A question that will not be answered though.

There was another forum owner (forum #4) that also was utterly unable to converse with me directly. She made claims that she had received none of my messages that were send to her personal email address (which was openly posted on her forum), but communicated through another forum member expressing the wish that she wanted to see them. (She had in private approached another forum member to get that message to me, which I received). Well, why not sending me a message directly?? She had the email address! Anyway she made up a story and kicked me from her forum. Later she then appeared on this forum #5, and I actually laid out a bit about my experiences with her, and questioned her reliability because of my experiences (some claims were made about her honesty about other matters by some member on this forum #5, which naturally I questioned). Anyhow then for the first time she actually started to address me directly. She did that 2 times and then she disappeared saying that she had put me on ‘ignore’. She again failed however to explain anything, just plain opinion about how much at fault I was.

 
Additional comments (2) - Freedom of speech  vs?  Freedom of speech

A usual claim made by those forums that oppose to Scientology is that they themselves would be about freedom of speech, this as opposed to the Church of Scientology that supposedly limits freedom of speech. I can confirm that a certain pressure may be put on you from various people within the Scientology organization. Mind though that this may or may not be ordained by the actual original writings however (see for some details my page “Critique from churchgoing Scientologists overturned”). Either way you most certainly do have the right to your own opinion and to actually disagree as various codes with the organization clearly lay out. Various of them are listed in full in the publication ‘What Is Scientology?’.

Now what about those that oppose to Scientology, are they really about freedom of speech? My conclusive personal experiences about that are rather excruciating. Freedom of speech is allowed as long as it follows a certain pattern, the pattern being that one has to adjust oneself to the general agreement that one finds on a particular forum or group.

	“If [the site admin] were to kick your sorry bottom to the curb he would NOT be denying you free speech. He would simply be exerting his right to freedom of association (or freedom to not associate), and his property rights.
	Censorship is something that governments do to stop individuals from speaking. Kicking out a rude guest who is badgering other people at a dinner party (for example demanding that somebody speak to you, or justify their reasons for leaving the cult) is NOT censorship.”

“The bottomline is that you use an poor excuse to actively attempt to deny someone the right to ask questions. That is the simplicity of it. You appear to have no sense of what freedom of speech involves. You actually do accuse me of what you are doing, which is putting demands. Governments always have done like you through times. You deny free speech, but call it something else.”

The matter was actually that I posted a simple inquiry which was then interpreted as a demand which shortly after then was perceived as bullying.

Anything one may do on such a forum may get twisted by another member simply to make you look bad, and give them a reason (justification) to get rid of some other member who's only crime may be that he or she is of a different opinion.

 
Additional comments (3) - Forums or counter ‘movements’ turning into cults themselves?

This actually would be an interesting subject for discussion. Could there though be found any truth within this particular concept?

Various of these noted forums were a counter reaction to the phenomena of Scientology. There would not be an anti-Scientology movement or sorts today if there was no Scientology in the first place. That what should be considered is if the anti-Scientology movement is actually displaying cult behaviour among its members. Are the ‘debates’ found on the established forums meaningful? In the previous chapters I have written down my experiences on various forums that relate about Scientology. These may speak for themselves.

A few additional relative notices about Internet groups

• Seeing OSA everywhere and anywhere ...
• The anti- or ex-Scientology groups
• The no-Scientologist

 
Seeing OSA everywhere and anywhere ...

A note can also be made about that any of these groups (the anti- or ex-Scientology or the various Free Zone groups), that either of them (as I experienced) have an eye open for as they call them OSA agents or OSA ops (operators). This Office of Special Affairs (OSA) is the legal section of the Church of Scientology. It is considered, and probably with good reason, that they wish to somehow infiltrate the various Scientology offshoot groups and the anti-Scientology groups. All this in an effort to make them disappear or disband. Then I repeatedly had the experience that as soon as one does not agree about certain issues that one instantly may be considered some sort of OSA operator. Some people appear outright delusional about this. Indeed I have been subjected to this myself at a variety of occasions. In fact me having this website has at times been claimed to be my ‘disguise’ to win credibility when I defended certain issues. It is quite interesting to see how various people on these groups may discuss some person that is somehow suspected to be such an OSA operator. It even has, because of that, been questioned if I was really this person having this website. These people when reading these lines may be convinced now that I actually am that person.

 
The anti- or ex-Scientology groups

We have some technology or knowledge of data and we have people that do something with it. The former does not necessarily come with the right application by the latter. I find that these so very easily get mixed up. Application does not represent Scientology technology. It represent a person or persons that did something. It is quite vital to separate this as very much can have gone awry from original technology to actual application.

 
The no-Scientologist

Even sadder though is the tale of the no-Scientologist. Somehow various people got hooked up on the topic of Scientology and talk against it although they are lacking any (or very little) personal experience with it. You will find such persons on especially the anti- and ex-Scientology forums and groups. There they may be spending a lot of their leisure time discussing (or rather finding wrong with) the subject they never really were able to get a grip of, or know very little about. They just figure that Scientology must be gotten rid of. For them it appears all bad. I experienced that it is also quite useless to debate with such individuals. Pertinent questions to situations, if hard to provide an answer to that actually acknowledges their conviction or views, are avoided. They may either simply ignore or utter some generalities. After which they go elsewhere and make the same claims. But then, why spending so much time with something you do not approve of? In essence this could be looked upon as rather insane as ordinary people simply move on. Why can't some persons let go off? Occupy yourself instead with something you do believe in and promote that. If one listens to them it also appears that they don't believe that there are many Scientologists around anyway. Then why consider it a threat? Why then spending this much time fighting it? So, there they are, on these forums, newsgroups whatever, passing time, ready to spout their quirks and twists.

Either way, my running around on these various personally managed groups and posting on them at this time are done and over with. I have no intention nor motivation to involve myself with that ever again. I entered them with questions and I did receive my answers, I know what these groups and the people active on them are like. I know how one goes about things over there. And as it appears the far majority of the people there don't want to listen, hear or learn anyway. There is simply no willingness to consider alternate options or reflect upon another perspective. It remains undoubtedly true that you can not make people see if there is no intention to actually look. Insight is in direct relation to knowledge of self. That means that one has to be able to be critical of oneself, it again appears that indeed very few people are willing to do so. On the overall I experience that the majority of these discussions found on these groups are either presumptuous or of a rather silly (useless or unintelligent) nature. Don't people have something more constructive things to do? For many of its members it may appear that they are just there to pass time. It be noted also that most appear anonymous, providing for no contact information or even a valid email address. Any that wishes so may get themselves involved with these petty mind games that are played about on these forums. For me it was interesting for a while to learn about them. Today however I have no business with that anymore. I permanently moved past that.

Vocabulary:

     Free Zone:
Free Zone generally is regarded being those groups (as in plural) that practice Scientology outside of the control of the official Church of Scientology. Various of these groups may have their personal approach about how to use the Scientology technology. See also my note here (separate window).
     LRH:
An usual abbreviation for ‘L. Ron Hubbard’.
     Mimeo:
Mimeograph section. The section within the Scientology organization that takes care of all the printed references, printing, storing, organizing, filing etc. Since the ’80s however the printing is not done anymore with a mimeograph machine (or ‘Roneo’), it became off-set printing. However the name Mimeo is still the name used to address this section.
     OSA:
‘Office of Special Affairs’. A network within the Church of Scientology International which plans and supervises the legal affairs of the church, under the board of directors. (What Is Scientology? (1992), p. 649)
     Sea Org (SO):
Short for ‘Sea Organization’. This is the senior organization within the Church of Scientology that see to it that Advanced Organizations (AOs) and the Class IV-V organizations do function well. They send out so-called missions if there are indications or if they find that improvement or corrections are called for. They also provide for dissemination and other programs that the Scientology organizations are to comply with. Missions may be send out to implement these and instruct the organizations.